Species Power Balance, Slave Status of Ilets/Humans, and the Status of Imported Humans

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

Alright, real talk. I'm gonna try to keep this stuff to what the majority is saying. I'll start with the species power balance. The Zhuic are ridiculously overpowered. I understand that there is oftentimes a dominant species. That's fine, however the Zhuic are extremely, extremely intelligent, live for hundreds of years, and are seemingly impossible to overthrow. They rule over the other species, yadda yadda. Anyway, it's really hard to want to be anything else than a Zhuic. An alternative would be for them to be weaker, or for their nature to be less aggressive so that they wouldn't have conquered everyone else. It seems like the other species wouldn't be okay with being lorded over, but for whatever reason they are. This could also be changed. The planet could be in a state of political unrest, but the other species would have more power. There are many options.

On to the slave status of humans and Ilets. I don't think Ilets need to be slaves, but at least one person thinks that humans shouldn't be. It would be nice for one or the other to be free. The way that the slavery thing is carried out now makes it very hard for them to do much of anything unless their master is very nonchalant. Since they are isolated from other slaves most likely, the only interaction will have is with people who think they're not much more than dirt. This really... doesn't leave room for that much! An alternative could be for slaves to be kept together, doing simple or dangerous jobs like mining or harvesting raw materials. This would give them a change to interact with equals much easily, and maybe organize a rebellion in the future.

The status of imported humans is currently "on the run". This is also... you guessed it... really limiting. With their powers mostly inert, their only option is to live as refugees forever. IDK if this even matters though because I seem to be the only one that actually wanted to use these guys sooo

discuss

Well, I would agree that Zhuic could use a bit of balancing and the that iq thing needs to be nerfed. The iq scale tops out at 250. In order to get a large number of people to 250, the zhuic would need to be far more advanced than the Evoknights and that just wouldn't do. Remember, Genius on the IQ scale is about 145, being born with an IQ of 150 is scientifically implausible by a massive margin. Personally, I would be content with the zhuic living longer, being stronger, faster, sharper and a bit smarter because of a better schooling system. If I imagine Kiwi and her zhuic counterpart engaging in a brawl, I would imagine needing 2-3 Kiwis to match the Zhuic. It would still be possible to break free of the zhuic by weight of numbers.

If the humans were to be assigned to jobs like mining and harvesting raw materials, some of the weapons could be purposed for combat. Mining lasers could easily be turned on armored vehicles while pickaxes or hammers and such could be used to smash heads. Hand held riveting tools would make decent carbines in close quarters. That's assuming the zhuic don't have powered armor. Even if the humans were to resort to throwing rocks, a rock to the head still hurts.

Of course, the humans are still vastly outnumbered and sheer attrition would drop their numbers to zero, even if they got some actual weapons.

Also, with the imported humans, did they decided to get on a ship and have Suzie open a really big portal or did they just have her maintain a stable connection and file through a small one? Sam still has his battle-carrier (that means weapons) so weapons for imported humans wouldn't be that much of a problem.

Snick or Kyuu needs to make a 'Space' sub-forum too.

Posts : 33 Join date : 2013-07-27 Age : 28

If Kyuu wants to keep the humans as slaves, the whole putting them together sounds like a good idea. And if someone wants to make a character that is a personal slave, they can. But the Ilets really shouldn't be enslaved.

The Zhuic are overpowered and need to be taken down a notch. We can all agree on that.

And I told Kyuu to make the board, but she refused.

Admin Posts : 76 Join date : 2013-07-27

1. There isn't a maximum IQ score, Kiwi. Alien races are different than humans, so you can't start comparing it to humans. I said that most graduate with an IQ of 400; that doesn't mean that all of them do. None of the Zhuic characters made have to be super intelligent. Hell, they don't even have to go to school. What is said on the races list is just the guidelines, the averages. Does your Zhuic have to be average? No. Do they have to follow that to a T? No. They can be dumb, they can be weak, they can be short if you want. That is just what society, especially the other races, see the Zhuic as.

2. When I was given the Ilet information, they were enslaved. That was what was written, that was what we decided (how, I don't remember). Stop complaining because they will be a major force in overthrowing the Zhuic later on. How much later? That depends on how many people finish their characters and get on with roleplaying. The humans don't have to have a single master. They can have an NPC master who has a bunch of them for group work. I'm pretty open with what they do while enslaved until people keep asking about it.

3. No space. We are not going to have a space board. Why? Because you guys are supposed to be stuck on Chronos VII. No ifs, ands, or buts. What does that mean? If you destroy the planet, you kill everyone. B| I don't want to get into the complications of having multiple planets and space in general. It makes things confusing. If you're up in a ship, be in orbit around Chronos VII. The Zhuic will probably pick you up on their radars, but, if you're from 35-whatever, you should have decent cloaking devices to by them some time. Just slap that thread in a board and have them land there later on in the thread.

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-07-29

The zhuic do not make sense as the dominant species. If they were truly so power hungry, then they would have conquered their entire planet, iraxu and onzhu included. The iraxu would be slaves, and the onzhu would be used to death. Onzhu queens would be brought up in labs and forced to pop out egg after egg after egg in order to come up with as many workers as possible. The entire planet would be covered by the zhuic and their reign.

Physiologically, the zhuic do not make sense. The average zhuic is seven feet tall. I came to the conclusion that they lived in jungles, so yes, they would have to be tall and strong. But not to a ridiculous degree. I actually do agree with the zhuic being super smart. It's the only thing that makes sense for them. However, being super strong does not need to come with that. If they are super smart, then they do not need to use their bodies as much, and therefor, would be weaker than their ancestors aside from genetic modification.

So, in conclusion, their strength needs to match their body, and their body says that they are strong but not that much stronger than a human. At the most, they would be as strong as one of the Na'vi, and that might be even too strong, because the Na'vi are ten feet tall on average and their bones are thick and heavy. And while a zhuic would have roughly the same structure, a zhuic would not be nearly as strong as one of those blue creatures.

The zhuic need to be toned down.

IQ-wise, sure. They can be born with an IQ of one fifty. Let's say that. But let's say it maxes out at three hundred and cannot go any higher.

So, if this rp is going to work, the zhuic need to have enslaved the iraxu, the onzhu, humans, and the ilet all together. That is the only way anything can work.

That, and we need a space thread. A space thread sounds really useful.

As for people having powers...

Personally, I think this is easy enough to control. Everyone, of course, needs to have reasons for everything and I think that is up to whoever is making a character with powers to keep things within the proper and obvious boundaries. In fact, you should leave that up to me.

Also, cracking down on powers is a bit useless. I could go make a myth ilet right now. Let's say... A fire breathing dragon or a phoenix. Those have very obvious powers. Hell, the phoenix is technically immortal. The dragon could cause a lot of damage. Boom. I just got around powers, right then and there.

So please, I'd like that kind of stuff to be up to me. I know you get overwhelmed, but Snig and I aren't here to twiddle our thumbs and do nothing. We're your help, so don't worry. We won't let things get out of hand. We can work together and solve those gaping problems.

As for the mining idea, I really agree with that.

If we're going with this slave idea, then the slaves WILL outnumber the zhuic, and if they work together, CAN pull a revolution. That is what this entire thing is going to be about in the first place. A revolution. And I think you're just going to have to accept that. We can all work together and make an ORGANIZED revolution, but face it, there is going to be a revolution and we want it to start now.

For example, the ilet are already pissed, so there's that. Humans, though weak, are durable and there are many. They also don't have very shabby brains. Then there are the humans with powers (who, after I talk to some people, should be given back more of their power to an extent). They just arrived to see their fellow humans enslaved. THEY are pissed. Very pissed. Then there are the onzhu. They're pissed, too, and don't want their queens to be enslaved, or their species.

That is a LOT of revolution material right there.

That, and, the zhuic didn't enslave the ENTIRE ilet species. The ilet still have others out there. So, ta-da~ Space wars.

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

*mostly a response to kyuu's post, I agree with amber. everyone being slaves sounds like it could be neat

Regardless of how dumb or weak the individual Zhuic is, as a whole, they are overpowered. Everyone could make a completely worthless Zhuic character but they would still, as a whole, be too powerful. My problem was not at all "I feel like I can't make a weak Zhuic!" It's, "Everyone else is so powerless compared to the societal institution that IS the Zhuics!" Also I think it was Rambo that was comparing their IQ to human levels, not me. Also, what kind of act of god could make any being so perfect and powerful. If we look at humans, which can be like a really shitty parallel to the Zhuics, we have sacrificed physical prowess for the sake of our intelligence. A being so perfect physically and mentally is unrealistic. And even if it were, it simply does not work.

I didn't know that the Ilets being slaves wasn't your idea until a little bit ago. I like Amber's idea where everyone is a slave to the Zhuic. They are already very blatantly second class citizens. I don't see why we can't have EVERYONE join the effort to overthrow them. I mean god they're so overpowered we will need every species to join in.

Why not just say.... "Don't blow up the fucking planet, guys." That would solve the issue in one sentence. We're not idiots, we can understand basic commands. Also, I understand the issue against multiple planets. But against space in general?? No. It's not that confusing. Also, it would be nice if there was interplanetary travel. That would be another thing that'd make the Zhuics have to fucking cool it if there are other, stronger species, breathing down their necks.

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

Not gonna pick a side here... but as you all know, everyone here is stubborn as hell and probably neither side is gonna budge on anything. So how about a compromise, ya? How about what gives the zhuic their amazing strength is their armor, and whenever they aren't wearing it, their strength is on the same level or only marginally superior to the other species? Same with intelligence. The armor could connect to the user's brain and offer a large reserve of neurons and other brain matter, thus increasing cognitive abilities, but only when wearing the armor.

400 IQ is absurd though. If you were that smart, you would probably think yourself to death. Half of that IQ almost guarantees insanity.

A space topic thing is rather unnecessary though. As Kyuu said, space travel threads can be in the place where the ship will eventually land... after all, there's not much to do in space, especially since the zhuic probably have anti-spaceship cannons everywhere.

Also, this site is young guys, so there's no need to rush a revolution. Suppose there's a successful revolution 2 weeks from now... what then? Whatcha gonna do?

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-07-29

I am actually seriously liking the armor being able to help their brains. I'm totally agreeing with that.

Yeah, no, though. Cap it off at three hundred. No more than that. Let's not go to four hundred.

And I think Kyuu handled the space topic very well by putting up an orbit forum; kudos to her.

As for the revolution... Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't want to rush it.

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

I think having space will be nice. Chronos feels like its part the galaxy now, and that there are other peoples and beings not living on the planet but having an influence on it anyway. You could have ambassadors from other planets orbiting it or something, IDK. It wouldn't make any sense for Chronos not to have any interaction with other planets and I feel like having a space forum opens that up more.

Also good idea about the armor thing, Rookie. A revolution this soon is a bit much but a lot does need to change. We just need to... get things rolling with RPing in general before we start wrecking shit.

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

Rook This Is A Serious Thread

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

I have nothing to say, but if no one bumps this, we're all just gonna forget about it and nothing will get settled.

I'm waiting on Kyuu's confirmation as to what's go and what's no-go.

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

Oh okay.

Admin Posts : 76 Join date : 2013-07-27

STUFF:
-- Orbit Zone: you guys can have your 'space thread', but you cannot leave Chronos. Basically, you're stuck orbiting Chronos VII or just far enough away so that the gravitational pull does not catch you, thus leaving you stranded until the Zhuic come or your land on one of the moons or on Chronos VII.

-- IQ: the smarter Zhuics now have around an IQ of three hundred. If they go over three hundred, then it will be a no-go unless it's only, like, ten or so over. Normally no one bothers to say how much of an IQ their character has, so it doesn't really matter for specifics. Also, an Alakazam (yes, bringing Pokemon into this) can have an IQ of one thousand; however, they die young because of so many brain cells. 'Dumbing down' the Zhuic does help a bit considering how long they live.

-- Armor: yeah, sure, whatever. They're an advanced race, and I didn't feel like describing much on their armor. Having it aid them it pretty much what it is for, and I believe that I put it in the Zhuic race post that they really only get stronger or something when wearing their armor. They are naturally a very intelligent species, but the armor could allow them to access, say... I don't know, a computer or something, thus giving them even more information on the go. It would also help them target and tell them the stats of whatever they are looking at. ~~so not ripping that from movies. nope.~~

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

Alright, thanks Kyuu.

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-07-29

Three hundred and ten over needs to be as rare as two hundred and ten is for humans.

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

Okay so I replied to this but it ate my reply for whatever reason. We have really no inkling of how smart someone with an IQ of 200, honestly. So a drop in the IQ of the Zhuic from 400 --> 300 or whatever it is really doesn't change anything in practice. IQ of 200= really smart IQ of 300= still really smart. I'm not sure if this is making much sense, but IQ numbers don't really mean much when we get that high. There needs to be a more substantial difference (a dip into numbers where we can actually UNDERSTAND how smart they are) for it to mean anything. Honestly an average IQ of 200 or even 150 would probably be enough.

Also, the Zhuic should probably be knocked down a few more pegs before they get Google Glasses armor. Armor that they would be physically weak without, for example, is a much better idea imo, especially if their IQs are kept in the 300s.

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-07-29

See it as their brain's ability to process something while understanding and being completely conscious about what they're processing. The higher the number, the better they can calculate.

If they were to pick up a book, it would be incredibly difficult for them to read it because of the rate at which their minds take in the information. They would not be able to turn the pages fast enough. They would probably be able to pick up a book, turn every page like people do for fun just to hear the noise of papers flapping and the book snapping shut, be able to quickly remember each and every page, know what was on every page, and if they missed words, they would be able to fill in the blanks using their powers of deduction. Thus, they just read an entire book within mere seconds and fully understand its contents. And then they would be able to type the entire book up, no problem.

And y'know, there are probably some people that can actually do this, but the point is that this is rare for a human to be able to do. This is normal for a zhuic.

They would have a photographic memory, and would be able to use their minds like a database. They can't have keyboards; their brains function too fast for their fingers. So it's like they would be able to copy and paste knowledge from their brain on to a computer instead.

I'm assuming that they medicate themselves and tamper with their chemical makeup in order to keep feelings of distress to a minimum, or perhaps emotional distress would be eliminated entirely, forcing them to become mechanical and fully rational, without emotional desires and animal instincts. These would be administered by their armor, which probably doubles as some sort of stabilizer so that their brains can function even more flawlessly.

But the thing is, their brains are too advanced for their bodies. Their bodies are stuck with primal instincts that parts of their brains still dish out. Their bodies are so behind their brains that they're still stuck as animals, and that's a zhuic's greatest weakness. Their processing abilities are absolutely legendary, but if they're not careful, they can become very irrational and clouded by anger from the stress they put on their bodies by diminishing chemicals that cause necessary emotional reactions in order to keep the body functioning right.

They've screwed themselves, and though they know it, they're so curious and busy with other things that they can't help but ignore their predicament.

The only reason why they're not so weak from having high functioning brains is because of how fast their brains developed in the first place. They're running off of the majority of the strength they had and needed as an animal that survived in a mountainous jungle with many other beasts that they had to protect themselves from.

^ Shh, it's late. Pulled everything I wrote here out of my ass. Just wanted to throw this out there.

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

Someone's level of intelligence would not have any adverse affect on their motor skills. Thoughts, consciousness, and rationality have their own designated portion of the brain (the frontal lobe). So do motor skills (the motor cortex). So for intelligence to conflict with motor skills like that, the brain would have to rearrange sectors of the brain and have intelligence "invade" motor skills or something... and I'm afraid that's just not possible. :B Not in a developed human brain anyway.

That actually is possible when you're young and not fully developed. If you were born deaf because the temporal lobes of your brain were annihilated or just didn't develop in the first place, then people can re-wire your brain to send the electrical signals that come from your ear somewhere else. Eventually, the brain will realize that it's supposed to be receiving sound from those signals, and it will re-program that area of the brain to deal with them, and viola, you can hear. But it only works for areas of rather un-importance. Nothing will ever overwrite something as necessary as motor skills... In fact, motor skills overwrites everything else. So even if their thoughts were really clouded with whatever, if they put their mind to it, a keyboard wouldn't be hard to use. The brain would force itself to develop more and more until it could keep up, at least a little bit. The motor cortex does have the power to invade other portions of the brain, after all.

It's not possible for any human being to read that fast btw, because the human eye can't focus on the words of a page flipping that fast. So even with the Zhuic, it's not about IQ, it's about how fast the lens in the eye focuses and how fast the eye can move in general.

I'm not too sure about the whole animal instinct thing... it is possible (methinks) to cause irrationality and rage but it defeats the point of the zhuic ever taking off their armor... their ass will be harder to kick that way. XI

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-07-29

I actually haven't studied the brain yet (OBVIOUS IS OBVIOUS), so for me, a lot of that's blurred/I've obviously got a lot of misconceptions about it.

But I guess, loosely, the point I'm trying to make is that their brains ARE screwy. They ARE different, and they AREN'T humans. I'm saying that their brains would have to be wired differently, set up differently. Their eyes were probably super-developed in the first place if you considered their environment. Like. Their fps is like. SUPAH HIGH.

What I was trying to say, most of all, was that as a species, they're half baked. Developed, but underdeveloped. Conflicted in design. Aka, nature hates them.

And I'm sure strength isn't what they were going for with their armor; it's just protection and stability.

Posts : 149 Join date : 2013-08-03

We just don't need to get into that much detail I guess. I agree that they should be 'half-baked' and stuff.

There's no way for me to hypothesize about what a zhuic brain would be like anyway... To keep a body alive sanely for 300 years is completely different than keeping a body alive sanely for 90 years. The human brain can only store about 140 years worth of memory data, then it becomes impossible to learn anything without a magnetic brain wipe or something. So for a zhuic brain to do all that far better than a human while staying roughly the exact same size would be quite a feat... There's really no use in trying to compare brainstuff here, so I don't know why I did it. XI

Posts : 61 Join date : 2013-07-30

*feels ignorant now* :^)
anyway. um. so the zhuic are done?

Posts : 23 Join date : 2013-07-29

Ooh. It can only store a hundred and forty years' worth? That's interesting. Owo I guess their brains just have a better way of compartmentalizing its information.

But anyway, a summary, I guess:

Zhuic are subject to insanity, rage, hysteria, and many other ailments of the mind without their medication. Though they're strong outside the suits, their weakness is their inability to rationalize properly while being plagued by the primal state. So, get a zhuic out of its armor, catch it when it's unstable, make it angry, and using strategy, it should be much easier to kill it than when it's in its high-functioning armor. Even though it will have the ability to attack multiple targets, it won't be able to stand up against an ambush, even with its accelerated senses.

So, while they're good at covering up their weaknesses, that does not mean they don't have any.